In the most recent episode of his “Marketing Today” podcast, Alan Hart welcomed a special guest. Seth Godin, thought leader and author of 18 best-selling books, joined Alan for a lively conversation that ranged from topics like Colin Kaepernik and Nike to Brexit and the idea that when you’re trying to reach people, you shouldn’t try to transform them or get them to admit they’re wrong, you should simply dance with them.

And they also talked about Godin’s newest book, “This Is Marketing: You Can’t Be Seen Until You Learn to See,” as well as the fact that Godin considers himself, first and foremost, to be a teacher.

You can listen to their entire conversation here on MediaPost.